https://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/blog/the-sidereal-vs-tropical-debate “Sider” means “star” and therefore sidereal astrology is based on the actual astronomical positions of the planets against the backdrop of the fixed star constellations. Sincerely, the Western Tropical chart for all its vast gifts, knew nothing of this destiny, but Sidereal Vedic Chart got it simply and quickly in one. But there are even more glaring differences between Jyotish (or Sidereal astrology) and Tropical (or Western astrology). For example, if a planet is at 11 degrees Gemini then add 7 degrees and go back to Taurus. It’s like flat earth theory for us. you are absolutely wrong because still no one can certainly say which one is accurate and precise. Our day to day life on earth is integrally effected by the seasons and so to transpose the zodiac over the seasons – works. Tropical is about looking within and understanding yourself better. Your ancient sidereal birth chart is an instruction manual on how to live a live of health, wealth, and joy. The sidereal zodiac is not symbolic but is oriented to an observable phenomenon. However, there are problems with both systems. So why two zodiacs anyway? And what my Sidereal Vedic chart declared happened. The tropical zodiac, therefore, is a symbolic system based on the Sun/Earth relationship and is oriented to the seasons. I’d say it’d be worth it to incarnate at that time just to join in the debate! The Debate TodayThe debate between the two zodiacs is, of course, centered around one main question, “how can both systems be right?” How can I be both an Aries in the Western system and a Pisces in the Vedic system? Know which is more accurate sidereal system or tropical system. One obvious one would be take the 12 year transit return of Jupiter. We still don’t know, and so I can’t insist that they are wrong. Ayana means “precession” and amsha means “part” or “portion.” The term refers to the number degrees difference between the Spring Equinox and the 1st degree of Aries. It’s just astronomical fact. Understand the difference between Tropical Zodiac which is used in Western Astrology and Sidereal Zodiac which is used in Vedic / Indian Astrology. The twelfth year, like Pisces, has qualities of dissolution and death before the rebirth again with the next Jupiter return. The Vedic chart using the Tropical Zodiac, I sadly do have to say, didn’t get any of it … And with the actual character. What went wrong? If you want to get the exact position of the planet down to the minute then get out a calculator and calculate the exact ayanamsha of the year and month you were born. They’ve never contradicted one another when the chart as a whole is considered. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. But around 150 CE, the Greek astrologer and writer Claudius Ptolemy, suggested that the zodiac should begin on the Vernal Equinox instead of the beginning of the constellation Aries; a zodiac system that we now refer to as “Tropical.”. It is important on the knowledge of the individual who is reading the chart 3. And for other people. Is sidereal astrology more accurate? For instance, the Sun passing into Aries conveys the qualities of Spring – active, energetic, vigorous creative new life etc. There is a heavy debate over whether the sidereal or tropical system is more accurate. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window), Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window), Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window), evidence that it could date back as far as 11,000 BCE, calculations based on the Tropical Zodiac, evaluate your ancient Sidereal birth chart, Your Horoscope – Your Guide to Riding the Universal Current, Modern vs. However, don’t write off tropical astrology. Here's a post on Tropical vs Sidereal Human Design. In other words, the stars are further away than our Sun, which is the closest star. There are several sidereal zodiacs. Centuries of failed astrological predictions eventually led to this once divine science, being written off as pseudoscience in the West. Now you can have the best of both worlds in a chart. After all, one sky seems to have worked out quite well – thank you very much. I don’t know that anything went “wrong.” Obviously, our civilization was meant to have both zodiacs. I think that depends on how astrology works. Many centuries before the Europeans were debating over whether the earth was flat, the Vedic rishis were figuring out exactly what effect the Earth’s wobble would have on the calculations of their ephemeris’s! In astrology, they refer to two different systems of ecliptic coordinates used to divide the ecliptic into twelve "signs". It's so hard to convince people that they're not really a Virgo or whatever. Thus, every 72 years, the vernal point moves backward through the sky by one degree. This phenomenon is known as the Precession of the Equinox. Tropical is convenient and orderly in a way the normalizes, or standardizes time, forsaking the shifting nature of time within the context of space for something more subjective to our experience on Earth, something more ‘universal’. In Western or tropical astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Vernal equinox or March 21st. Some people say that your Western chart is more “earthy” and represents your personality and your Vedic chart is more “spiritual” and represents your soul. That they were actually able to calculate this gives us a clue as to how advanced the ancient Vedic civilization was in terms of mathematical and astronomical knowledge. In other words, where the Sun actually is at the time of the Spring equinox moves backward through the zodiac. The debate between Modern Read more…, Mercury In Retrograde: Debunking the Hype It’s that time again: Mercury is in Retrograde, and everyone is losing their minds! The Sidereal position would be 18 degrees Taurus. Regardless of how old astrology is, what we do know is that the Sidereal Zodiac and the Whole-Sign House system are the oldest recorded astrological system known to mankind. Naturally, Western Astrologers were forced to invent new House Systems to explain the mounting anomalies and incorrect predictions caused by the Tropical Zodiac. https://abbeygalequinn.com/is-sidereal-astrology-more-accurate Interestingly, due to the precession of the equinox, the Sun will be at the 1st degree of Libra at the spring equinox in about 11,200 years! The Vedic system is often considered to be better at describing the soul nature and predicting actual events because it’s tied to the actual fixed constellations. Astrology is as old as human civilization; the earliest records date back to 3,500 BCE, although there is evidence that it could date back as far as 11,000 BCE. Got questions about career, health, relationships, etc? This makes sense because the ascendant is the starting point of the horoscope and the quickest moving indication in the chart so is could be considered more personally associated with your identity or “you.” In practice, the ascendant or 1st house relates more to one’s self, identity and personality traits than any other house. However, its chart shape is different, and includes the outer planets and more recently-discovered bodies, which Vedic astrology does not. The essential qualities of the signs of the zodiac do line up with the Sun passing through the seasons. Most Western Astrologers use the Tropical zodiac. This also becomes apparent when we study the popular reference texts of each system. When I read about the sagittarius man, I loved it because I really did fit that description. https://wingedwizard.com/astrology/sidereal-astrology-accurate Vedic or sidereal astrology calculated the the Sun at 6 degrees 03 minutes of Pisces at the Spring equinox in 2003. People often find that Vedic astrology is very accurate because it is based on the fixed stars.Human Design traditionally uses tropical astrology, … In other words, this Zodiac is more directly rooted in the physical reality of life on Earth than the Sidereal Zodiac based upon the distant stars. As an illustration, the pattern of 12 signs can be visually likened to a clock. Re: Sidereal Astrology is More Accurate I use the Earth as the center of the Earthal System. Why do some astrologers say one sign, while others say different sign. Ancient Sidereal Astrology holds the keys to discovering your true nature as well as your spiritual and life purpose. For instance, your Sun may move from Aries to Pisces in your Vedic chart, but you also may still have three planets in Aries, or Mars in Aries. It’s the age old questions: Is sidereal astrology more accurate than tropical astrology? Our calendar is based on this zodiac. There are two ways of measuring the zodiac- a Tropical approach and a Sidereal approach. Tale as old as time - people fighting over which system is "better" or "more accurate." Use the following dates for the ayanamsha as a starting point: January 1st 1940 – 23 degrees 01 minutesJanuary 1st 1950 – 23 degrees 09 minutesJanuary 1st 1960 – 23 degrees 18 minutesJanuary 1st 1970 – 23 degrees 26 minutesJanuary 1st 1980 – 23 degrees 34 minutes, 4 minutes 11 seconds per 5 years1 minute 40 seconds per 2 years50 seconds per 1 year4 seconds per month. Adherents of sidereal astrology believe that their system is more accurate because it reflects the true position of the planets against the stars. Many people prefer the sidereal system because it’s more accurate and covers many areas of your life. While sidereal systems of astrology define the signs relative to the apparent backwards movement of fixed … Even though the tropical system is more popular in Western areas of the world, Hindu astrology continues to use the sidereal system for their predictions. the prediction of Sidereal is another thing, and it really happens, because it is derived from Zoroastrian civilization, Persian, … Each year is like one sign of the zodiac. Let’s face it – we’re basically creatures of habit. On the other hand, this seems to imply that your Western chart is more grounded in practical matters on Earth, and your Vedic chart is more spiritual and ethereal. We tend to feel comfortable with what we’re used to and resist change. Sidereal, tropical, and anomalistic years The relations among these are considered more fully in Axial precession (astronomy). The question is what sign constellation do you assign to the planets? Vedic astrology today favors the emphasis of the ascendant and the Moon over the Sun as well. First of all both zodiacs are exactly the same in the sense that there are 12 zodiac signs progressing from Aries to Pisces. It was in this form that astrology spread to India. I prefer sidereal, but keep being forced back into tropical. Whenever you find yourself struggling, it’s because Read more…, Modern Vs Traditional Astrology: the Case for Innovation Every astrologer believes they have the best methods which they feel very strongly about. In fact, in my experience that’s always been the case when I look at both the Vedic and Western charts of a particular person. Whether you rotate the base to get your sidereal Vedic chart or the tropical Western the clock still works at least symbolically if not literally because it’s based on a true fundamental pattern. AstroSeek, Free Horoscopes and charts 2021 Astro-Seek.com Each of these three years can be loosely called an 'astronomical year'. Of these, the most widely used ayanamsha by Vedic astrologers worldwide is the Lahiri ayanamsha, also called the the Chitrapaksha ayanamsha. Still, many classical astrologers are using faulty astrological associations in their descriptions and predictions, but that’s an article for another day. I think God gets a lot of mileage out of people debating and facing their emotional reactions that surface in the process. Take, for instance, how debating is an integral practice in the training of Tibetan Buddhist monks in the qualities of understanding and compassion. God made no mistakes there! What happened next? The Tropical Zodiac, used by Western astrologers, is a completely valid coordinate system that accurately reflects the seasonal changes on Earth. This is why I think Western astrology makes sense even though it uses a symbolic zodiac. Because the tropical system is a Solar-based system the commonly held opinion is that the tropical system is better at describing the personality and psychological patterns. After studying Astrology for thousands of hours and for over a decade, my conclusion is Tropical is far more accurate than Sidereal. Subtract the ayanamsha or 23 degrees from each tropical planetary position and the ascendant to get their Sidereal position. Genetic Matrix now offers a Vedic Sidereal Human Design Chart as part of the pro membership as well as Tropical Human Design Charts. Hindu vedic system of prediction has more depth in the subject than Western 2. This is because most people interested in Vedic astrology were born closer to 1950. I personally do not give much plausibility to the validity of Fixed Stars, although I am still experimenting with these. Well, that’s because you were! Do you like Vedic Astrology and Human Design? Tropical however remained the same & is based the relation of the changing seasons & on the energies of the universe. Historically, it’s generally agreed, that the two zodiacs were in alignment with one another about the year 285 A.D. with both sidereal and tropical ephemeris’ listing the passage of the Sun into Aries at the Spring equinox. But is Sidereal Astrology more accurate than Tropical Astrology? Eventually their resistances are broken down and they’re able to contain a broader, more all encompassing viewpoint. By extension, if you take out your Western ephemeris you’ll note that the beginning of each season is lined up with the Sun passing into each of the cardinal signs in the zodiac – Aries, Cancer, Libra, and Capricorn. What form of astrology is more accurate? Is Sidereal astrology more accurate - Predictive Astrology - Used Longer - Vedic More accurate - Health Manifested I really don't see anything about me that fits the description of a true capricorn. Though they do not strictly follow the rules set out by sidereal calculations, they mostly follow the measurements, especially when giving predictions. So since my birthday is January 9th, based on the … The short answer: yes. But with such strong feelings comes some serious polarization. Make a list of your planets and their degrees as shown below. Siderealists don’t acknowledge tropical at all. They considered it more accurate since it is based on an actual link between the time of birth and the natural world as opposed to a theoretical position based on the seasons of the earth. The problem with this is this system is that the tropical year is 20 minutes shorter than the sidereal year. There are twelve signs in the tropical system. I spent a lot of time over the last few weeks dispelling fears about this Read more…, Copyright © 2021 | Abbeygale Quinn | All Rights Reserved. how can you claim? This is more of a recent cultural phenomenon due to the popularization of horoscope columns. The obvious reason why emphasizing one sign is limited is that there are so many potential configurations from which to interpret the same descriptive traits. The stars shine equally on everyone, whether they’re standing in New Delhi or downtown L.A., so why one “sidereal” zodiac popular in the East and one “tropical” zodiac popular in the West? It has 7 planets of one type that make "the spheres," 2 ice giants of another that behave strangely, and a bunch of random objects that I don't care about. Sidereal is a zodiac, it's not a system. On January 1st 1950 the difference was 23 degrees 09 minutes. Without the aid of telescopes or modern technology they calculated that the orientation of the equinoxes to the fixed stars precedes or moves backwards through the zodiac at a rate of about 50.3 seconds per year, or about 1 degree every 72 years. However, you will often hear it said that you need to subtract 23 degrees from the planetary degrees in your Western chart to arrive at your Vedic chart. This mathematical difference between the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs is called the “ayanamsha” in Sanskrit. The Vedic system accounts for precession and tends to be more reliable. It’s important to clearly understand the difference between the two primary systems of astrology in use today:  the Vedic or sidereal, and the Western or tropical. if Tropical system is more accurate then its predictions must be accurate too, however this never happen, because fan of Sidereal are much. The Thirteenth Zodiac Sign. But tropicalists HAVE to give credence to it because you can predict with it. Each sign is divided into 30 degrees, making a total of 360 degrees. Up until the last century or so, before the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, the classical rulerships of the signs were used in both systems. This was developed by N.C. Lahiri, the former head of Astro-Research Bureau of Calcutta. The first year when Jupiter is transiting over natal Jupiter is new, energetic and expansive in growth like Aries even though the actual Jupiter return may happen to land in another sign. My birthday is January 9th. In this article, I’ll explain why. This is why some people claim that sidereal is “more accurate” than the tropical. As the centuries progressed, the Tropical Zodiac continued to deviate from its Sidereal origins. It’s hard to be clear and objective when we feel threatened in any way and it’s easy to dismiss a seemingly opposing viewpoint to save having to expand out of our comfort zones. Sidereal and tropical are terms used to describe two different definitions of a year. Then we’ll really have a lot of explaining to do with regards to the two systems because they’ll be exactly opposite one another!! Example Calculations:Tropical Positions Sidereal PositionsAsc: 11 Gemini – 23 = 18 TaurusSun: 14 Scorpio – 23 = 21 LibraMoon: 10 Virgo – 23 = 17 LeoMercury: 28 Libra – 23 = 5 LibraVenus: 8 Libra – 23 = 15 VirgoMars: 25 Capricorn – 23 = 2 CapricornJupiter: 9 Pisces – 23 = 16 AquariusSaturn: 24 Aquarius – 23 = 1 AquariusNorth Node: 18 Sagittarius – 23 = 5 ScorpioSouth Node: 18 Gemini – 23 = 5 Taurus(Optional)Uranus: 24 Leo – 23 = 1 LeoNeptune: 3 Libra – 23 = 10 VirgoPluto: 14 Virgo – 23 = 21 Leo. Over the next 400 years, Sidereal Astrology remained relatively intact. It’s my opinion that you can get an accurate reading, both in terms of psychological interpretation and prediction, using either system. Ask questions, study jyotish and interact with hundreds of people in the LOVA Forum. Tropical Zodiac is most commonly used in Western systems of astrology - Sidereal Zodiac is used in Vedic Astrology and a few others. Western astrologers prefer to line up the planets in the zodiac according to the seasons, whereas Vedic astrologers prefer to orient them to the fixed stars. Psychic medium, Sidereal Astrologer, Paranormal Investigator, Psychic Development Teacher, Interfaith Minister. In 1954 the Lahiri ayanamsha was given the stamp of approval by the government of India. One zodiac belt, about 18 degrees wide, with the 12 zodiac signs ranging from Aries to Pisces rising in the eastern horizon – no problems there. On the other hand Sidereal astrology does align with the fixed stars and takes into account the precession of the equinox. Fortunately, more and more classical and tropical astrologers are rediscovering the power and accuracy of the Sidereal Zodiac. 1. I look at tropical for the zodiac analysis and sidereal for the nakshatra analysis. True Sidereal Astrology is similar to Vedic Astrology in that it’s not tethered to the Tropical Sun Sign phenomena and its chart Houses are of equal size. Therefore, the current mathematical difference between the two systems is about 24 degrees. The sidereal year is the time taken for the Earth to complete one revolution of its orbit, as measured against a fixed This makes some sense due to the relative vantage points in terms of distance. But it was their predecessors who first divided the sky into 12 equal sections, or houses. It could be argued, first of all, that it’s rather simplistic to identify yourself by only one particular sign like we tend to do in the West. In Vedic or sidereal astrology the calculation of the Sun passing through the 1st degree of Aries is marked by the Sun passing through the actual observable fixed stars making up the constellation Aries and has nothing to do with the seasons.